Healthy Homes Grantee Conference Call

Mold and Moisture Issues

 

Summary Notes

December 20, 2002, 1:00 pm EST

 

I. Participants

 

There were 32 lines on the call.  A list of participants who registered to participate on the conference call is included as an attachment at the end of the notes. 

 

II. Introduction to Call and Opening Remarks

 

Ellen Tohn served as moderator for this call.  She described the purpose of the call and explained that the goal is to provide Healthy Homes grantees and partners with access to technical experts on issues of interest to grantees, and allow grantees to interact with each other.   

 

Welcome

 

Ellen Taylor, from HUD’s Office of Healthy Homes and Lead Hazard Control, then welcomed everyone to this first call of the series.  She invited the participants to provide feedback on the call as part of a larger information dissemination and networking strategy.  The current plan is for the calls to be bi-monthly events, with potential future topics including asthma triggers, carpeting/flooring, community capacity building, and other tools for long-term implementation. 

 

Related activities include:

$ Holding satellite conferences about two times per year.

$ Encouraging use of the Healthy Homes Grantee Electronic Exchange.  The Exchange is an interactive tool for grantees to communicate and share information.  (Bi-weekly updates on what is on the Exchange are currently being sent out, and participants should contact Sonya Ravindranath (Sravindranath@icfconsulting.com) if they are not receiving them or have questions.)

$ Forming working groups amongst the grantees on topics ranging from asthma to training to moisture control.  The conference calls will help form the working groups and inform the topics to be addressed. 

$ Sharing ongoing conference activity.  Participants are encouraged to alert HUD about interesting conferences they plan on attending.

 

Background About Speaker

 

Ellen Tohn introduced Terry Brennan, who served as the technical expert for the call.  Terry owns a small company, Camroden Associates, that provides forensic, analysis, research and training services to the building community, the research community, the public health community and owners and occupants of buildings.  Recent work includes healthy building training with Joe Lstiburek of Building Science Corporation for the Boston Region HUD Healthy Homes project; analysis of fungal dynamics in crawlspace homes in North Carolina for AEC’s Crawlspace Characterization Pilot Study of sealed and vented crawlspaces; teaching four moisture and mold workshops in the Pacific Northwest for Washington State University and the University of Alaska.  

 

III. Speaker’s Remarks

 

Terry presented his thoughts regarding mold and moisture issues to the call participants and responded to participant questions.  The discussion focused on three topics:

 

 

Prevention

 

Terry emphasized that the key to prevention is to keep building materials dry, particularly those vulnerable to mold.  He presented four levels of material vulnerability to mold.

$    The most vulnerable materials are those that contain starches or sugars, such as paper covered products, like gypsum, and suspendable ceiling tiles (dropped ceilings).  (An indication that these materials are vulnerable is that one drop of water every 12 minutes could produce visible mold in two days.) 

$    The next level of vulnerability includes materials that produce mold when exposed to humidity levels of approximately 95%, such as medium density particle-board and fiberboard.

$    Sapwood and hardwood lumbers are relatively mold resistant.       

$    The most resistant materials are porcelain, ceramic tile, PVC, and rubbers.

$    There is a new gypsum board covered with fiberglass (such as “Dens Guard” by Georgia Pacific http://www.gp.com/gypsum/index2.html ) which appears to be good at resisting mold growth. 

 

In places where keeping the material dry is impossible, use resistant materials that are easy to clean.  For example, mold cannot grow on porcelain, but it can grow on dust on porcelain.  A common example is the backside of toilets: paper fiber sticks there when the surface is wet, and mold can grow.

 

Terry stated that the two worst mold growth situations are:

$    A big flood in a home that makes everything wet.

$    A small, hidden leak that humidifies a cavity over time.

 

The hidden leak is potentially the most dangerous, because it is difficult to detect.  To combat mold growth in hidden spaces, Terry suggested:

$    Install plumbing where it is visible to the greatest extent possible.  He noted that a vulnerable area is the trap under sinks.  He estimated that 3 in 50 sinks have leaking traps, with enough moisture to grow mold. 

$    Avoid placing pipes in insulated walls and ceilings. 

 

Condensation also presents a problem, particularly in the southeastern part of the country, but the issue is spreading to other areas with the increased use of air conditioning.  Installing air conditioning in old buildings can damage them by fostering mold growth, often in hidden placed like behind wallpaper.  Ventilation will dry moisture in a non-air conditioned building, but in an air-conditioned building, intentional and accidental ventilation is wetting the building.

 

Assessment

 

When investigating mold growth Terry stated that you need to know:

$    What is the moisture dynamic?

$    What containment/protection is required during cleanup?

 

There is not a lot of research on this subject. The best guidance available is from

 

These resources focus mostly on remediation, not investigation.  The best course of action is to act prudently.

 

When preparing investigation reports, you should include:

$    A description of the moisture dynamics in the building

$    Recommendations for intervening

$    Specific location/square footage of mold growth

$    Recommendations for appropriate containment and protection

 

In general, Terry did not recommend taking air samples during an investigation.  He stated that it is more helpful to collect building history from a knowledgeable person, and then go look for mold in the places where the building is likely to be getting wet.  He emphasized that it is necessary to move things around during this type of investigation.  This method is tedious and a lot of work, but provides greater certainty than air sampling. 

 

To augment his ability to find mold, Terry uses a stand microscope like those used in the printing industry.  At 100X you can see some mold not visible with the naked eye.  Especially in buildings with high humidity, you can use this to find Aspergillum or penicillin.  Also, Terry carries a HEPA vacuum with him and simply vacuums up anything questionable, and notes the location.

 

Making holes is the best way to get into contained places, unless there is an access panel behind the bathtub or in the ceiling.   Be prepared to cover holes quickly as you might find a lot of mold.  Only make a hole when you have reasonable belief that mold is present in the contained area. 

$    The best method is with a hole saw because the cut can be easily replaced, and it creates the least amount of dust. 

$    The hole should be approximately 3 inches in diameter.

$    Look at the back of the sample removed from the surface- mold may be growing there. 

 

When thinking about where to put holes, think about wet places, such as near plumbing, under windows, and in exterior corners, particularly behind baseboards.  Helpful tip: When possible, remove mop-boards and make holes behind them.  It’s usually the wettest spot, and then less repairs are necessary. 

 

Moisture meters can help you determine moisture levels inside a wall cavity, which is valuable when you’re trying to decide where to make a hold or if a hold is needed.  Caution: There is a fair amount of uncertainty in the readings provided by moisture meters.  They work by measuring the electrical conductivity of a material, so sometimes bits of metal can appear to be moisture.  They are valuable though because they enable you to do tracing in the field, while with sampling you have to send materials to a lab.  They aid in identifying locations where further investigation is needed.

 

There are two kinds of moisture meters.

$    Meters with steel pins that are pushed into a material to measure its conductivity.

<          Benefits- good for both accessible surfaces, and getting deep into a material

$    Meters with electromagnetic wave between two pads pressed against a surface.

<          Benefits- non-intrusive, can trace things quickly. 

 

Both types are generally calibrated for wood.  The most versatile model is the Tramex Moisture Encounter, which has three scales- one calibrated for wood, one for plaster, one for masonry.  It can penetrate up to one inch in depth (valuable because a surface may be dry, but there could be moisture inside.)  The cost is approximately $300. (http://www.tramexltd.com/)

 

Another model is the Protimeter- it doesn’t go as deep, but uses a combination of pins and electromagnetic radiation.  The cost is approximately $500-$600. (http://www.protimeter.com/)

 

If you need to know moisture content of concrete there is a specific meter for that purpose. 

 

Most people, with some basic training, can use moisture meters when they are provided with training.   Terry noted that most people without specialized knowledge or training should be able to use moisture meters effectively with proper guidance and oversight.  He commented that, “If someone can use a video camera effectively, they should be able to use a moisture meter effectively.”  The University of Minnesota’s website http://www.dehs.umn.edu/iaq/moisture.html is helpful for learning to use the Tramex device. 

 

Terry commented that, in his view, there is little use for commercially available mold test kits- they act as a settling place and have too much uncertainty.  Analysis in the field is best done with tape lifts and microscopes.  Nothing can be said from samples alone, but they can usually confirm what has already been found through inspection. 

 

Responding to a question from a participant, Terry stated that sometimes sampling is necessary because of liability concerns, so you have to do it anyway.  In that case, you need to have someone who can identify what you’ve found with your tape lift.  Medical mycology labs may not always be appropriate (although the Cuyahoga County grantee uses a medical lab and was satisfied with the relationship). Terry recommended using a good indoor mycologist.  He said it is difficult to know what to look for when choosing a lab, as accreditation doesn’t tell you a lot.  Terry works with several labs and maintains an ongoing dialogue over time in different projects.  He did recommend two labs for culture sampling:


Treatment

 

Terry discussed some modest interventions that can be performed to minimize mold in an existing building:

$    Protect exterior cladding of building:

<          Put something on the inside walls that can handle moisture leaking through

<          Install a vapor barrier on insulation 

<          Give an air vent on back of claddings

$    Landscaping:

<          Have landscaping flow away from building

<          Create an underground awning- around the outside of the building dig down 20 inches- put roofing material against foundation and in trench to keep the soil below it dry (i.e., the Bill Rose technique) 

$    Install gutters and downspouts in arid climates

<          One inch of rainfall can cause damage to foundation- poorly managed rainwater causes foundation problems more often than the water table

 

There are articles related to the health effects of mold on Terry’s website- www.camroden.com

 

IV. Questions and Answers

 

How do you ensure that mold spores aren’t dispersed?

Answer: The EPA, ACGIH and NYC guidelines provide a break down for containment issues:

 

·         For less than 10 square feet of contamination only limited containment is needed

·         For more than 100 square feet containment similar to lead abatement is appropriate

·         In between, use your judgment

 

Terry stated that simple barriers afford a lot of protection.  The other way is pressure management so that air flows to workspace, not out of the workspace (i.e., negative pressurization). 

 

Does cleaning have to extend to non-moldy surfaces (especially carpets)?

Answer: This is difficult to judge because there’s mold everywhere.  Damp wipe all hard surfaces as a precaution and HEPA vacuum other surfaces.

 

What is the age distribution of affected homes?

Answer: Mold problems are present in homes of all ages, but more in new homes/new renovations because of widespread use of paper covered gypsum and widespread use of air conditioning.  In older buildings, the problems are often found in the roofing and foundation.

 

What type of recourse is available for tenants whose landlords don’t provide mold remediation?

Answer: More landlords are recognizing the liability issues involved in mold issues- more and more lawyers are becoming involved. 

 

Terry relayed a difficult type of situation in which he will find a rental apartment unit with moisture/mold on the roof.  The landlord doesn’t want to replace the roof, so to fix the situation Terry is forced to clean up the mold and then replace things in such a way that it can get wet and not grow mold.  The practical reality is that you can’t always correct the moisture problems first. 

 

V. Related Topics

 

A variety of moisture issues did not get addressed, but will be addressed in subsequent email communication or conference calls.  Participants suggested the following issues as needing more attention:

<          Interpretation of samples

<          Working in rental buildings

<          Issues with facades and roofing

<          Retrofitting mechanical ventilation systems

<          Rental/public housing renovation for other purposes

<          Recommendations for affordable steps for the individual homeowner

<          Renovation of larger buildings

<          How to make the most use of a limited budget

<          When to use biocides

<          When to tear it down instead of fixing it

 

 

List of Resources and URL’s Provided During the Call

 

 

Gypsum board covered with fiberglass

 

 

Mold remediation guidelines

 

 

Moisture meters

 

 

Laboratories for culture sampling

 

 

Other web sites with useful information