The science of Thanksgiving

{***Noah***}

Hello and welcome to Harvard Chan: This Week in Health. I’m Noah Leavitt—Just a quick reminder that we’re taking a couple of weeks off.

And because we’re approaching the Thanksgiving holiday here in the U.S. we wanted to replay two of our favorite Thanksgiving episodes.

First up—is our in-depth episode on the science of Thanksgiving featuring Guy Crosby of America’s Test Kitchen.

Even if you don’t celebrate Thanksgiving we hope you’ll pick up some tips and tricks that you can use to enhance your cooking throughout the year.

Next week we’ll be sharing ways you can have a more environmentally-friendly Thanksgiving.

And we’ll be back after the holiday with new episodes on a range of topics—from nuts and heart health to an interview with a researcher exploring how to improve the ways we use big data in public health.

But right now—enjoy the Science of Thanksgiving.

NOAH LEAVITT: Coming up on an extended edition of Harvard Chan “This Week in Health”, the science of Thanksgiving.

GUY CROSBY: I recommend salting the turkey. What it does is, it actually dissolves some of the muscle proteins.

NOAH LEAVITT: We’ll hide inside the kitchen with Guy Crosby of America’s Test Kitchen and he’ll explain how you can use science to perfect your holiday feast. And why you should always chop your brussels sprouts.

GUY CROSBY: Cutting them, like I said, is what damage is the cells. You won’t get the same smell. We’ve created the chemistry that’s now going on here that is creating the flavor.

NOAH LEAVITT: We’ll break down that science. Plus, Crosby shares the age when kids are the pickiest eaters.

[MUSIC PLAYING]

Hello and welcome to Harvard Chan “This Week in Health.” I’m Noah Leavitt.

AMIE MONTEMURRO: And I’m Amie Montemurro.

NOAH LEAVITT: Amie, we’re just days away from Thanksgiving here in the US. And for many people, the holiday feast is one of the most important meals of the year.

AMIE MONTEMURRO: And that can mean stress. Cooking that turkey perfectly, having the right sides, the list goes on and on.

NOAH LEAVITT: But using food science can actually take out much of the guesswork. That’s why we wanted to talk to Guy Crosby, who’s an organic chemist turned food scientist. He’s an adjunct professor in the Department of Nutrition at the Harvard Chan School and science editor for America’s Test Kitchen.

AMIE MONTEMURRO: And Noah, you recently had the chance to talk with Crosby about a wide range of topics.

NOAH LEAVITT: We did. We chatted for almost an hour in Crosby’s kitchen, and were occasionally joined by his wife Christine, who you’ll hear from later in the episode. We covered tips for cooking the perfect turkey, his favorite Thanksgiving side dish, and why the brand of salt you buy really matters. Plus, we step into the kitchen with him to learn the science behind perfectly roasted Brussels sprouts. And here’s the first part of our conversation where we covered the basics of food science as well as some tips for turkey.

So I just wanted to start broadly. When we talk about cooking science, what is that?

GUY CROSBY: Well, a good question. Of course, it’s the application of science to anything that you’re doing to food, whether it’s preparation or cooking, if you’re eating it, how you’re want to preserve it, prepare it, serve it. It’s all involved science, almost everything you do. I just gave a lecture last night at the BU Gastronomy Program and the whole thing was science in the kitchen. I mean, there’s almost nothing you do in the kitchen that does involve some kind of science.

NOAH LEAVITT: I think one of the reasons why we wanted to do this is that there seems to be more of a focus among the general public on cooking science and awareness of it. So, generally, are there certain current trends that are really popular now for home cooks or even professional cooks when it comes to cooking science?

GUY CROSBY: You know, I think people are getting a better appreciation for differences between heat and temperature. One of the things that we did at America’s Test Kitchen was develop and promote use of poaching in oil for fish. And the surprising thing that the editors didn’t really realize at the beginning that I explained to them very carefully is that, if you poach in wine, wine, if you heat it up to a certain temperature, contains twice as much heat as olive oil, if you bring it to the same temperature. So it cooks things much faster in the wine than it will in the olive oil.

And we did a real simple little test for them where we brought olive oil and wine up to the same temperature and put your finger in each one. And as soon as you put it in the wine, just burning, the olive oil, you can leave it in there. So it’s amazing, same temperature, completely different amount of heat.

Wine, water, contains about twice as much heat. So people are, through these kinds of examples, learning that temperature’s not heat, heat’s not temperature. And there’s a big difference in how you measure, how you’re cooking food, how you heating it, and controlling the temperature, and how long you heat it, and to what temperature.

NOAH LEAVITT: I think for most people, obviously, turkey is the centerpiece of the Thanksgiving meal. So is what you’re trying to do, in a sense, is take out some of the guesswork and stress? Can embracing science in the kitchen make Thanksgiving less stressful for people?

GUY CROSBY: I think the thing that makes it most less stressful is just good planning, or thinking ahead, several days ahead, of what you’re going to make, when you need to make it, what the timing is. Timing is everything. Planning is everything.

And I will confess right up front– so I normally do nearly all of the cooking here except Thanksgiving. Christine is the Thanksgiving chef here. She’s been doing it for years and loves to do it. The way I recommended cooking a turkey is not the way she will cook it. And I certainly am not about to tell her how to cook her turkey. But there are things that you can do.

I recommend salting the turkey. Brining has become popular. But it’s so messy. And it takes such a big volume. And people don’t have room for it in their refrigerator. But you can salt a turkey under the skin. But you’ve got to let that set for at least 24 to even 48 hours in the refrigerator so the salt diffuses and season it. But what it does is, it actually dissolves some of the muscle proteins. And the dissolved proteins, when you start to cook the turkey, form and gel. And that holds the water into the turkey. By dissolving some of the muscle proteins it loosens them up. So it also increases the tenderness.

So if you do that, you’re going to be able to make it a lot easier to make it come out right. Because the big problem with cooking turkey is you get white meat and you get dark meat. And they don’t cook at the same rate. They’re not the same composition. And something that I got into, because it just caught my interest, was that you read so many recipes and they’ll say, cook your turkey until the breast is 160, the thigh is 175.

They don’t come out that way. There’s no way you can cook them so one is here and the other is here. It would be great if you could because you want to cook the breast a little lower than the thigh if you can. But what you’ve got to do– you have to cool down the rate at which the breast cooks in order to get them to come out to those temperatures.

NOAH LEAVITT: So when people are buying the turkey, are there any things that they should keep in mind or look for, like, is it worth looking for the local organic turkey if you can? Should you buy the pre– you mentioned salting and brining. What should people look at when they’re buying the turkey?

GUY CROSBY: People do look at price, that’s for sure, and the right weight, and how much they want to buy to feed a certain number of people, whether the turkey is frozen or not. Or whether it’s been what they call pumped, it’s been pumped with liquids and stuff to moisten them up. So there’s all little issues. You’ve got organic, you’ve got free range, you’ve got heritage turkeys.

Freezing turkeys is not a bad thing. Organic is a good thing if you’re concerned about how the turkey has been raised and what it’s been eating. And if there’s any nearby pesticides and things. But on the other hand, processed turkeys that are processed and then refrigerated or frozen on a mass scale, they’re not necessarily any less quality.

People will think the way the turkey’s raised may affect, and probably does, the overall flavor. But there’s not a huge difference. I think the only one where there’s a big difference is when they are injecting the turkeys or chickens. And they do this with a lot of fluid. And it does add a lot of moisture. But it also makes them rather bland in flavor and over-moist. And you get a lot of water coming out when you roast it. And it’s not as flavorful as, certainly, organic, and even regular and non-pumped turkeys.

NOAH LEAVITT: That’s a good transition because you talk about over-moist and water running out. On Thanksgiving day, you’re planning your turkey, you’ve planned ahead. But, invariably, issues arise. So what are some common turkey issues people could actually run into on Thanksgiving?

GUY CROSBY: Trying to get the breast meat to come out the same as the dark meat, the drums, and drumsticks, and thighs, and stuff like that. Because if you can get the thigh a little higher– and the thigh is right in here, right? It’s between the drumstick and the body. That’s where you want to check the temperature. That’s the most important place. That’s still that’s the last one to get up there. You want to make sure it’s at least 165.

But you can take the turkey out, as I recommend, at 160. And you let it rest for 30 to 40 minutes. And the temperature’s going to keep going up. So it’ll rise up, definitely, to a safe temperature. Of course, if you have stuffed it, you’ve got to check the stuffing, make sure it gets to 165. You really want to do that because at that temperature you’re going to kill all the harmful bacteria within seconds.

As the breast is going to dry out, has less fat, less connective tissue, it’s going to dry out sooner because it’s exposed. So if you want brown, crispy skin towards the end, you’re going to have to sort of– once it gets brown enough– shield that breast with either aluminum foil. Or, if you’ve got a lot of juice in your pan, you can baste the turkey because that will create evaporative cooling that keeps the breast cooler than the rest of it, the thigh, or the stuffing that you’re trying to cook. Getting each one to come out about right, not overcooking the breast, making sure that the rest of it is safe to eat at 165, is the big challenge. A lot of people like really brown, crispy skin, that’s another big challenge.

NOAH LEAVITT: So let’s talk about that because I’m a I’m a big crispy skin guy.

GUY CROSBY: Generally, a pretty hot oven helps that. Because what you’ve got to do is, you won’t get any browning on the skin– this is an important thing that most people don’t know– you won’t get any browning as long as the skin is really moist. Because while the skin is really moist, all that moisture is evaporating. And where does water boil? 212 degrees Fahrenheit? It’ll never get hot enough to brown because you have to get the skin up to over 300 Fahrenheit before any browning takes place. So as long as there’s lots of moisture in the skin it’s not going to brown because what’s happening is, water is evaporating, keeping it at the boiling point of water. You’ve got to get it all dried out, get it up there.

So you want a hot oven temperature to evaporate the moisture as fast as you can. In fact, that’s another good reason why salting works. Because you get to leave it in the refrigerator 24 to 48 hours. And in the refrigerator it’s very dry, cold. So it dries out the skin.

And if you can, in any way, leave it in the refrigerator, whether you salt it or not– overnight, let the skin dry out, because it evaporates well in the refrigerator. Then you won’t have as much evaporation. You’ll get the temperature up high. And it’ll start to brown. And, of course, if you use a somewhat hotter oven than a cooler oven it’s going to brown that much faster.

And then, the other little trick that America’s Test Kitchen does is, they will take out just a teaspoon of baking powder, a slight weak alkali, mix it with some oil, a couple tablespoons, and rub it all over the turkey skin. That alkali speeds up the browning reaction.

The browning reaction, which is known as the Maillard reaction, increases 500-fold when you go from a slightly acid to a slightly alkaline pH. It speeds it way up. You’re going to get lots of browning. And that’s what creates the color in the crispness of the skin. So that’s another thing you can do if you want.

And also, if you rub oil or even a little butter on at the start, it’s going to shield the skin, it’s going to reduce t evaporation of what moisture is there. It’s going to reduce evaporative cooling. It’s going to allow that oil to heat up above 300 degrees very quickly and start the browning process.

[MUSIC PLAYING]

NOAH LEAVITT: So we could have talked turkey for another 15 minutes. And we will return to turkey again later in the episode, I promise.

AMIE MONTEMURRO: We’ll be heading into the kitchen with Crosby shortly, but first, a quick detour to share some of his tips on my personal favorite– side dishes.

NOAH LEAVITT: And we have a lot of tips on side dishes, now and later in the episode. So you’ll have all of your needs covered.

AMIE MONTEMURRO: Excellent, thank you.

NOAH LEAVITT: First of all, when it comes to mashed potatoes, Crosby says your best bet is Yukon gold potatoes because they’re much creamier. Russet potatoes are too mealy, he says, while waxy potatoes, like red or new potatoes, won’t give you the right texture either.

AMIE MONTEMURRO: But we know the white potatoes aren’t exactly the healthiest choice. So Crosby says you can mimic mashed potatoes by using cauliflower. Add some creme fraiche or even a little cream cheese and you won’t know the difference.

NOAH LEAVITT: And while we’re talking healthy swaps, ditch the candied sweet potatoes covered in marshmallows. Crosby says that an enzyme in sweet potatoes breaks down as they’re heated, releasing plenty of natural sugar and sweetness.

AMIE MONTEMURRO: His suggestion? While your turkey is resting before being carved, through some sweet potatoes in to roast in a 400 degree oven for a simple and delicious side.

NOAH LEAVITT: And this roasting strategy works for many other veggies too, things like turnips or parsnips. It’s a way to bring out flavor while also preserving the nutrients in the food. One vegetable that tastes great roasted is brussels sprouts.

NOAH LEAVITT: So we head into Crosby’s kitchen for a demonstration.

GUY CROSBY: Cutting them, like I said, is what damages the cells. You smell where I’ve cut it– versus if you take one of those whole. You won’t get the same smell. And we’ve created the chemistry that’s now going on here that’s creating the flavor.

NOAH LEAVITT: In step one when dealing with brussels sprouts or any other cruciferous vegetable– those are things like cabbage, broccoli, or cauliflower– you have to start by chopping them.

AMIE MONTEMURRO: Crosby says you won’t get much flavor until you actually cut those veggies.

GUY CROSBY: These isothiocyanates that have now been formed by the enzymes released when you cut the brussels sprouts. So you don’t want to chop them up too much. But you certainly want to cut them in half to start the flavor process going.

NOAH LEAVITT: These sprouts were coated in olive oil, some salt, and then roasted at 400 degrees for about 22 minutes before a final drizzle of balsamic vinegar.

AMIE MONTEMURRO: At this point, while all this cooking was happening, Crosby’s wife, Christine, jumped in.

CHRISTINE: Why don’t we keep those outer leaves?

AMIE MONTEMURRO: She wanted to try a quick experiment.

NOAH LEAVITT: Taking the discarded brussels sprout leaves, sprinkling them with salt, and then roasting them.

GUY CROSBY: Sure. Yeah. Oh, roast them in the oven until they’re crispy? Well they will, they’ll crisp right up. All right, we’ll do them separately. Now I’ve got to rinse my hands off. I’m going to salt and pepper that. And once the oven gets up to temperature they’re going to be ready to go in.

NOAH LEAVITT: This simple act resulted in bold flavors in an example of chemistry in action.

GUY CROSBY: Try one, go ahead.

CHRISTINE: Tastes kind of popcorn-y.

GUY CROSBY: They do. Now go taste a raw leaf and see what a total difference it is. All the chemistry that’s gone on, changing that flavor. We’re coming up here. Two more minutes.

NOAH LEAVITT: And there’s plenty of science behind other decisions in the kitchen.

GUY CROSBY: The bigger grains tend to stick a little bit more.

AMIE MONTEMURRO: For example, the salt you decide to use.

GUY CROSBY: And there’s a big difference in brands of kosher salt based on their particle-size. Smaller crystals will pack tighter. And so you get more , crystals more weight, in a teaspoon of one versus the other. The person I gave this lecture with at the symposium here in Boston not long ago, she’s a really, really good nutritionist. But she always recommends the one with the big crystals because you end up using less. Half the weight of salt and sodium in your diet is just one easy way of cutting down on that. So let’s put these in.

AMIE MONTEMURRO: Now back to those brussels sprouts you were cooking, Noah.

NOAH LEAVITT: If these were smaller they would be a little bit browner. All right, we’ll take them out now anyways even though they should have browned more than this.

NOAH LEAVITT: Apparently, the sprouts we bought were a little too big, according to Crosby. They were about two inches, when one inch is ideal.

AMIE MONTEMURRO: And the reason is that the smaller sprouts will brown more easily, leading to more flavor.

NOAH LEAVITT: Still, the results were pretty delicious.

GUY CROSBY: Yeah, this is good. On the bottoms, you see, the bottoms have browned up really well. We’ll drizzle a little of this on here. And then can do the critical taste test. But they’re a good texture. They’re brown enough.

NOAH LEAVITT: So one other interesting side note from our time in the kitchen– we discussed the sometimes negative reputation that brussels sprouts have among kids, because people probably cook them whole and don’t chop them like Crosby suggested.

AMIE MONTEMURRO: And boil instead of roasting.

NOAH LEAVITT: Exactly.

AMIE MONTEMURRO: According to Crosby, there’s actually a specific age when children’s eating habits are at their pickiest.

GUY CROSBY: Kids at the age of six have been shown to be at the maximum point of food dislike. Where they’ll eat anything when they’re really young. And then they start to get really fussy around six. And then, gradually, as they get older, teenagers, they start to come back and learn to like other, more diverse flavors. But if they learn to not like something at that age of six it’s going to take them a while to recover.

[MUSIC PLAYING]

NOAH LEAVITT: Amie, we’ve talked a lot about the foods you’ll find in your Thanksgiving table. But have you ever thought about why the holiday spread is so delicious?

AMIE MONTEMURRO: It turns out that there’s a lot of science behind the flavors on your plate, especially when it comes to umami, that deep, rich, savory flavor.

NOAH LEAVITT: We talked about that in the second part of our interview with Crosby. And he started our look at flavors by describing a dish that’s been a staple in his family for years.

GUY CROSBY: You know, the side dish that’s been a tradition here in our house that, again, my wife’s been making for many, many, many years is this Julia Child’s recipe for brown braised onions. The little pearl onions, they’re small little things. And you saute them in some mixture of oil and butter. You brown them, you cook them a good long time. You brown them with time and then you finish cooking them with beef stock and wine. And they cook, and they cook, and they cook, and they develop incredible flavor.

And one of the things that I mentioned– the same with making gravy, if you want to make tons of flavorful gravy– is this compound that is formed in onions when you cook them slowly for a long period of time, especially if they’re cut up or cooked a lot.

The compound that’s formed in onions that makes your eyes tear– which only happens when you damage the cells, it’s not there in the onion by itself, you can put an onion up to each face, you don’t smell it, it does make you tear. But as soon as you chop it, it does, right? Well, that compound, it form slowly over a couple of hours. This other compound that has an immense, beefy, savory, gravy-like aroma, and flavor.

When you make a stock with the parts that you don’t normally cook from a turkey, like the turkey neck, and the giblets and things, along with chopped up onions, and carrots. And you’ll form this compound slowly. And an actual study was done, published in the Journal of Agricultural and Food Chemistry that showed, this compound had the most flavor impact of any compound in gravy, in creating gravy flavor. And the same compound is going to be formed when you make these brown-braised onions and cook them for a couple of hours. And they’re super umami flavor, super intense, wonderfully flavorful.

NOAH LEAVITT: Beyond onions, are there ways to infuse that into other parts of the Thanksgiving meal? Because that the flavor profile that a lot of people love. So what are some of the ways you can make sure you’re incorporating umami into other dishes?

GUY CROSBY: Mushrooms, if you want to sauteed mushrooms. If you want to add them to the gravy or have them as a side dish, that’s one. Or mix them in with other things. You could mix them in sauteed with brussels sprouts and other cruciferous vegetables. The other thing that a lot of people probably don’t think of using, and probably feel they wouldn’t like it, is anchovies. They’re an incredibly strong source of umami.

You could– and I did this the other day because I was not convinced really what happened– you can take anchovies and when you heat them up an olive oil they literally do just fall apart and look like they’re dissolving. But they pretty much disintegrate. You only put a tiny amount in. But they’re such a potent source of umami flavor that you can put them in– and America’s Test Kitchen has done this with lots of different dishes, where they bump up the umami flavor and you don’t even know there’s anchovies in there. But you know this is much more savory when they’ve been used in the recipe than when they’ve been left out.

NOAH LEAVITT: We’ve talked a lot about the act of cooking and things people can do. And we talked a little bit earlier about preparation. If you’re someone who wants to cook things ahead of time, like, let’s say you want to make some brussels sprouts ahead of time, or make these brown-braised onions and ahead of time, maybe the day before. Is there any way to do that and still preserve the flavors and the textures that are so great about those food?

GUY CROSBY: Yeah, and it’s a good question because that comes back to planning, right? What are you going to make when? Anything you can do ahead of time is such a big advantage when it gets so busy during the day itself. Everything goes into making things on the spot when you can.

And then you make ahead of time, well those brown-braised onions are actually great if you make them the day ahead or two days ahead, refrigerate them. They’re the kind of thing– and it seems like kind of umami-rich flavors are the kinds of things that actually build if you just let them sit there. And let the flavors continue to develop in the refrigerator. You’ve got to keep them in the refrigerator so they’re safe. But the flavors will develop and build. So you can certainly develop those kind of side dishes. They’re the kind of a sulfury flavor compounds you get an roasted brussels sprouts, different kind of compounds. You can develop other flavors but I think the texture starts to suffer a lot, in those.

So those, you’re going to need to make on the spot. Put them in the oven and roast them while your turkey is resting so that they’re fresh. I wouldn’t make those ahead of time. But other things, you can, you can mash potatoes, and revive him later, or sweet potatoes. With onions, you can do that.

So there’s many vegetables– the mashed cauliflower, you could make them a day ahead of time. Throw them in the refrigerator, keep them, and revive them. Again, during that 30 or 40 minutes while the turkey is resting and you’re carving it. So thinking about those and knowing that you can do these things helps you to plan your day. All the desserts can be made ahead of time, right?

A lot of people do like to have soup at the beginning of their meal. You can certainly make that ahead of time too. And soups are the kinds of things that often mellow in flavor over time, because you get more flavors being developed through slow chemical reactions if they sit for a while. So make soup a day or two ahead of time. And then you could serve that at the beginning of the meal.

NOAH LEAVITT: So we’ve talked a lot about flavor. And I’m a big sweet and savory combination guy. At Thanksgiving you have all this stuff on your plate and you’re searching for that like perfect bite that just balances that. Is there a perfect Thanksgiving bite for you? Like, maybe it’s some turkey with some stuffing and cranberry sauce? Is there a bite that just tastes like Thanksgiving to you?

GUY CROSBY: Well, I like dark meat in turkey because it’s really moist, and juicy, and more flavorful. But I would say the combination of that bite of that dark turkey meat with one of those brown-braised onions, the combination, where you get that umami from the brown-braised onions is an intense flavor. If you’ve never had them, you should try them. That really carries a flavor impact. It’s really potent, really, really good. And I suppose the other thing– that little cranberry sauce, it’s very, very tart sweet, sweet and tart at the same time, along with some of that turkey is a great combination. The sweetness of the turkey and sweet-tart of the cranberry sauce is good.

NOAH LEAVITT: Do you have a favorite Thanksgiving food?

GUY CROSBY: Well, we come back to those brown-braised onions. I’d have to say that’s it.

NOAH LEAVITT: At this point Christine jumped in again, offering some more insight into these famous brown-braised onions.

GUY CROSBY: How many do you make of the time, Christine? About 150 or so? 75? The thing we have to warn you about, though– and she does it, mostly, and our daughter will come and help her out, is peeling them. You’ve got to peel off the skin and the outer layer so you get down to the real tender, ripe onion. And that takes a couple of hours, right? A couple of hours.

NOAH LEAVITT: You have to recruit the reinforcements for that.

GUY CROSBY: Yes, you do. Because it’s mind numbing. And it’s slow, tedious business. But it’s worth it in the end. But it’s a lot of work, to warn you. You can buy these frozen pearl onions, though they’re not going to turn out the same. They’re really waterlogged. These have a lot more sugars in them that brown up and create lots of flavor.

NOAH LEAVITT: You have to create the reinforcements for that. So we’ve had our Thanksgiving feast [INAUDIBLE] day, leftovers. Anyone can make the leftover turkey sandwich. Is there anything that you–

GUY CROSBY: Oh darn, that’s what I was going To go for.

NOAH LEAVITT: Well, OK, how do you make your perfect Turkey leftovers sandwich?

GUY CROSBY: Well, actually I like just leftover turkey, heat it up with– we save the gravy, save the vegetables, and I warm it up in the oven in combination. So that’s good. But a sandwich is great. Again, you want to put on the cranberry sauce, if you’ve got there, with a little mayonnaise and Turkey and cranberry sauce. Some lettuce.

I know if it was a sandwich our daughter would absolutely have to have a tomato in there as well. I don’t like tomatoes so much in sandwiches. And the bread is important. Getting the right flavor of bread is good, whether you go for sourdough bread or rye bread, that we like a lot.

NOAH LEAVITT: OK, so now we’re all starving.

GUY CROSBY: Toasted or un-toasted. That’s another big– I don’t like my toasted. Christine, you like yours toasted? She normally would toast it– and our daughter too– toast the bread for a sandwich. But I just like it plain the way it is. Some mayonnaise, cranberry sauce, turkey, salt, and pepper.

NOAH LEAVITT: Thanks again to Guy Crosby and his wife, Christine, for sharing all of their Thanksgiving and cooking knowledge.

AMIE MONTEMURRO: If you want to learn more about food science and Crosby’s work just head to our website hsph.me/thisweekinhealth. We’ll also have a more detailed look at the brussels sprout recipe that he cooked for us.

NOAH LEAVITT: And that’s all for this extended edition of Harvard Chan “This Week in Health.” I’m Noah Leavitt.

AMIE MONTEMURRO: And I’m Amie Montemurro. And, as always, you can find us on iTunes, SoundCloud, and Sticher. And if you’re a fan, please leave a review. That will help more people discover the podcast.